Callie Ammons (Guest)

Hey, I'm Callie Ammons, and I use the Enneagram to help you understand your internal world so you can live more effectively and leave a legacy.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Welcome back to the Power and Purpose podcast. It's me, your host Candice. And my guest on today's episode of the show is Callie Ammons.

Candice Coppola (Host)

She is a certified Enneagram coach. Today we're talking all about the Enneagram. She's our first Enneagram expert on the show. So excited. I think you guys know that I'm sort of an Enneagram person. I believe in the Enneagram. I've done my own research by no means to Callie's level of expertise, but I do believe in it. And I'm so thrilled that she's our first Enneagram expert on the show. She wants to teach you more about how you can use your personality type to live and work on purpose. And that's the crux of today's episode of the show.

Candice Coppola (Host)

What if you could look deeply inside yourself to understand who you truly are at your core so you can live and work every single day on purpose? Wouldn't that be nice on this journey of self discovery and self improvement that you're on listening to this podcast and many more, I'm sure. Wouldn't it be nice to really connect with who you are at your core and then leverage that leverage what you know about yourself and your personality in your everyday life and also your work?

Candice Coppola (Host)

Well, Callie stumbled across this work on her own journey of self discovery. We talk about that as we talk about her journey, working two full time jobs before she launched her coaching career, where she now helps women like you. And help us figure out our Enneagram type so that we can work more effectively and leave a legacy behind. So we talk about her journey and then we also talk about the Enneagram, how we can leverage it in your business, leverage it with your mindsets, things that you can let go of and how you can understand your customers better.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I'm so excited for today's episode. You're going to absolutely love it.

Candice Coppola (Host)

But before we dive in, I want to shout out our sponsors. Our first sponsor is a Honeybook. Y'all know, I love Honey book and you can go and save 50 percent off your first year's subscription. Honey book helps business owners like you and I get down to business. So if you've been looking to enhance your onboarding experience for your customers, book more clients and get paid faster.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I want you to check out Honey Book. I use honey book in my business every single day to send information about my services, brochures, proposals, contracts and invoices. I could not do business without it. So learn more about honeybook and to get fifty percent off your first year subscription. That's saving two hundred bucks. Go to candicecoppola.com/Honey book.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Our second sponsor for today's episode is FLOdesk. Now I love email marketing and I recently switched over to Flodesk and I'm so happy that I did.

Candice Coppola (Host)

My open rates have increased, my click rates have increased, my email list is rapidly increasing, all exciting things. But the thing I love most about flodesk is how easy it is to use and how fun it is to create emails. Before I really emailed my list, I have to be honest with you guys, but since using flodesk, I'm excited to touch base with my email list and share information and inspiration. You can save fifty percent off flodesk by going to candicecoppola.com/flodesk

Candice Coppola (Host)

Thanks so much to our sponsors for sponsoring today's episode of the Power in Purpose podcast. We couldn't do it without them. All right. So let's get into my interview with Callie.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Hi, Callie. Welcome to the show.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Hey, Candice, thanks so much for having me.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I have been looking forward to our interview because I'm kind of like an Enneagram nerd. I don't know too much about it, but I know a lot about myself as any type three would know about themselves as the overachiever getting to know all the things. But I am so excited to have you on the show to talk to you about the Enneagram, to hear your story, to learn your journey, and learn how we can leverage our Enneagram type to build the kind of business and life that we want.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

I'm so excited too. It's going to be a good conversation.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yes, I totally agree. So I want to start with you where we start with every guest who comes on the show. To hear your story, I want to know your journey of how you came to this place where you help women like me and women like our listeners learn through our Enneagram so that we can build that business that we've always wanted and live our life on purpose.

Candice Coppola (Host)

So how does that journey start for you?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, right now I'm a life coach and I use the Enneagram to help highly motivated women like you. And I think we often get to hear people's stories and like see where they're at in a successful journey. But it's like it was a process. And it takes time to get to that point. And so I'm really excited that you ask this question, because it started about five years ago where I was really going through a season where I was learning so much about myself.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And I'm sure you're like this, Candice, as a three, like you just get obsessed with self development and you start learning about mindset and how you live and act and how everything you do in your internal world truly affects the way you show up in life. So if I'm like starting to understand, oh, my gosh, the way I talk to my husband this way is actually frustrating him. It gave me clarity of recognizing how I was studying people off, maybe in negative ways because of negative patterns in my life.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And so I personally went on this journey of just figuring out how I act and live is affecting everything about my life. And when I started implementing things, yes, the Enneagram, but so many different self development tools, I started to experience freedom. And I currently was working in a leadership position at Starbucks. I had about 40 employees under me and it was a great job. I was learning so much, but I was like, I don't want to be here forever.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Like, this is not going to be where I'm going to end up for the rest of my life. But I, I was loving leadership and as I was learning about myself, I was having so much fun teaching my employees about when you learn to control your own life, you start to impact other people in a more positive way. And so I started to explore, like, what could I do, what could I create to actually help people in their life?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And it led me to the Enneagram. And that's how I started exploring more about it and started getting ideas of what would it look like for me to create a business.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I love that story. So it really started with your own personal development, which I think a lot of business coaches and life coaches start internally. They start to understand things about themselves or maybe have a big aha moment. And it is an incredible game changer for them. And they want to sort of spread that awareness to everybody they come into contact with. That happened with me when it came to purpose. I discovered my own and I wanted everybody to feel what I felt.

Candice Coppola (Host)

So I totally get you there. So you're in a leadership position at Starbucks. You're obsessed with the Enneagram. I'm sure you're researching day and night all the things about a type three, learning more about other types, maybe your husband's or a friend or you're researching one of your coworkers types. And how do we get into this position of being a leader and helping people understand outside of your network a group of women understand more about themselves?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yes, I have this idea of like, wow, this would be awesome to help people, but you can't just quit your job the next day, right? And start an online business or an in-person business that doesn't even exist yet. And so there was a process in what this process practically looked like was really simple of reading books and starting to listen to podcast. And I started to have my eyes open to the online space and world of business.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Like I really had no idea, Candice, like people were running businesses in the online space until I just started researching and listening and I was like a sponge in this season. So I'm still working in Starbucks. But I started seeing that, you know, my drives to work were opportunities to start building this dream that all of a sudden was starting to become a passion within me because I started to believe in it. And I was like, I could actually spend my time, energy and resources every single day helping people.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And that's what drove me was lighting me up. So reading books, listening to podcasts, starting to talk to people in my actual community that were running businesses and just trying to learn, how did you do this? How did you build something? What does it look like? And so then it started like Instagram just starting showing up and educating people and sharing my story and experience. And this went on for about two years where I still worked at Starbucks.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And then I also picked up another job for an insurance company just so I could start really piling my savings and building a big cushion so that I could take this leap at some point. And it really looks like being faithful for two years, honestly, more like from the start of self development to where I am today, that was like a whole five year process of becoming passionate about this. And that's where I think with success stories, like sometimes we we think it's success overnight.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

But you might have an idea or something that, you know, you're finally passionate about and you see a vision for it. But it's asking yourself that question like, how long am I willing to be persistent and learn in order to build this thing so that it will be reliable and sustainable where I can take a step to do it. And so I remember my husband Kramer, asking me. He was like, are you willing to steward this dream for five years before you even make an income?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Now, he believes we could do it way sooner than that. That I would, but he was just asking, like, do you care enough about this to make it happen? And I had to think about I was like, do I? And it was like, I really do. Like I everything in me was like, if I can help people experience the freedom I'm finally experiencing in my own life, like feeling confident in relationships, knowing how to talk to people, understanding just how to thrive everyday and actually be excited to get out of bed and not discouraged or frustrated.

It was a game changer. And so, yeah, that's what it looks like is starting to go on that process of really learning and educating myself. And then it turned a point where I started a podcast, I started creating products and was able to start putting it out in the world, which started generating income. And then it led to last year being able to fully step away from both my full time jobs and run my own company.

Candice Coppola (Host)

That's amazing. I love stories like this. I want to talk just for a few minutes about the confidence to do it. So many women have a dream of doing something that let's say they weren't taught in school or that they don't have a trade on. So like they don't have the belief behind the education that they need in order to do the thing. And here you are. You are yourself researching. I'm sure that you invested in education to teach you more about the Enneagram so that you can become the expert that you are.

Candice Coppola (Host)

It was largely you driven. It's like you went to college to be a business coach or a life coach or an Enneagram coach. You took it upon yourself to teach yourself. There must have been moments where you had some imposter syndrome or some self-doubt. Maybe not, but I imagine there must have been some moments where you thought, I don't know if I'm qualified to do this, even though I am qualified to do this.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Oh, that's such a good question, Candice. And yes, I did struggle with imposter syndrome, just like I think we all do. And, you know, someone just messaged me last week on Instagram and said, hey, if I want to start my own business and coach people like what qualifies me? And I thought it was a good question. I was like, you know what? None of us are perfectly ready, but you will never feel perfectly ready, perfectly educated because you're not the most educated person in that area.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

But what really stuck out to me is I believe I'm as Jasmine Star that I heard say this on a podcast when I was bingeing all the podcasts in the world. She had said, if you know 10 percent or 20 percent more than the person you're trying to help, then you have something to offer them. It's not about being the top, being the best in as a type three on the Enneagram. I'm an achiever and I want to be the best in everything.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And so I really got stuck in that of Wolf. I'm not the best and therefore I'm not qualified. And that was honestly, Candice, like keeping me trapped for a really long time like that. The whole two years of working on starting my business, I fully believe have my mindset would have been different. I could have done it sooner. Like, that's the reality of it. And I think running a business, we underestimate how much of your mindset has to be in a specific space.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And even like when you start making an income like that mindset that got you to maybe the income you're making is going to have to change to get you to six figures, then maybe just seven figures. Like it's just crazy how wrapped up in our head we can get that keeps us back or propels us forward.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

So I absolutely struggled with imposter syndrome and I'm not going to lie like there are still moments today. I absolutely struggle with it. And it's that mindset work that you have to work on it. But what really pushed me through it is I had to realize people's praises in support of my business, but also their hate in comments. Are people from high school like making fun of what you're doing? I realize that whether it was positive or negative, that can't determine the action I'm going to take in my life or in my business.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

They're not paying the bills their life doesn't depend on if I carry this mission out or not, like I have to deal with those consequences. And so, like, no one practical thing that helped me was listening to people who have walked that road of overcoming imposter syndrome and listening to how did they do that? What changed in their life? What did they focus on? And then step number two for me was really writing every single day in a journal of who I was becoming.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

So I would speak it into existence. My name is Callie. I'm a coach and I help women change their life. I was writing these things before I was even doing it, but it was starting to write this narrative of the direction I wanted my life to go and to actually have the confidence to believe that I can become that. No, I'm not perfect. Yes, I'm going to mess up. There's other people smarter than me. But if I can stay humble and keep learning and then keep speaking the words over my life, it's going to happen.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And I'm living proof of it. And I'm sure you are, too, Candice, like just looking at your own life as well.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah, I know for sure your story resonates with me a lot. I think even the older we get, the harder it can become to believe in ourselves. So that's something that I've struggled with. When I was starting my business back when I was twenty six, I had no idea what I was doing. So it was like that Dunning Kruger effect where I just knew everything and I could do anything.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And it really helped me to move forward. But then when you almost know too much, that imposter syndrome really creeps in. So I've been here before and as an Enneagram three too my fear of judgment and not being liked. Right is something that just haunts me constantly in my role as an entrepreneur. So it working through that, this is so enlightening and I think that's what is so great about the Enneagram is that we are made up of our beliefs, our collective beliefs and our individual beliefs.

Candice Coppola (Host)

That's our reality. And we all have the opportunity to learn more about who we truly are and what we believe, why we believe what we believe, and we can actually change certain parts of our reality as we change our beliefs.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely.

Candice Coppola (Host)

For sure.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

So I totally agree. And I just realized just to like for the listeners who maybe don't know about the Enneagram because I didn't mention this, the Enneagram is Candice and I are talking about it is essentially a nine type personality system where it focuses on why you do what you do so completely, your internal world. And you might hear that and be like, wait, there's only nine types of humans out there. But there's there's so much more to each individual type.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

But it categorizes us in this in these different nine Enneagram types that helps you understand your your core motivation and why you do what you do. So Candice and I are both type 3s, which means we're achievers, but Candice and I can still be extremely different humans. And so that's what this personality assessment tool is specifically that I have studied and that I use in my business.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah, that's a perfect explanation of it. Thank you for explaining it to any listeners who may not be familiar with the Enneagram.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And, you know, when I talk to people about their types or I ask if they'd be willing to share. It's never surprising when they say, well, I'm the type to type five, I'm a type nine. It makes sense. Right?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right.

Candice Coppola (Host)

You'd be so surprised of how very similar we are as human beings in our personalities and our belief systems and how we do things very similarly. So there being nine types and different levels of those types really does make sense when you start to dig in and look at it.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Absolutely. And so helpful.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Well, I want to talk to you about how our listeners can leverage their Enneagram type and use that information in their everyday lives, because as an Enneagram life coach, you coach women one on one on this. So we're going to get some one on one coaching today from you in today's podcast episode. So first question, we've kind of touched on this a little already is how does self-awareness play a role in being an effective business owner?

Candice Coppola (Host)

And what can the Enneagram reveal about us as entrepreneurs?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, it's such a good question and I really love using this example. So my husband is a type five on the Enneagram. And what that means is he is a deep thinker. He's quiet, he likes his alone time, his space. He has very low energy and basically it's the complete opposite of a type three. And so we both are full time entrepreneurs, have our own separate businesses. And it has been so fascinating to watch how he has completely run his business and how I run mine and both of our teams individually.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And it is like night and day difference. It's like it's kind of funny, but we both have been extremely successful. And the biggest thing I've learned from this example is if Kramer tried to run his business the way I run mine, I believe he would have completely failed and vice versa if I would have followed everything he did. Now, of course, we can learn from other people and their experiences and how they run a business. But I think so many of us try to look at someone else and feel like we have to run a business or even just live our life the way someone else is.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And then we start to wonder, why is this not working? Why is it not happening? Why am I not getting the same results? But the difference is, as Kramer, my husband understands his strengths and he is 100 percent leaning into those. And I'm doing the same thing, understanding my strengths, but they're just completely different. And so that's one simple way in our business. I think when we're self-aware, like first focusing on ourselves, understanding like, OK, what are you good at and how do you do more of that?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

What are you maybe not so good at and how do you delegate that to someone else? Not that we can't work on our weaknesses, but learning that about yourself is going to be so enlightening. And I remember even like simply when I was showing up on Instagram, I was trying to imitate a lot of the ways other people were running their feeds and how he showed up on stories and doing what they did. And it just I hated it. Like, I have this hate relationship with Instagram for the longest time.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And then about it was the beginning of twenty twenty. Actually, I completely changed my strategy. I was like, I'm just going to be me and start talking the way I would talk to a girlfriend or the way I coach my clients. And that started changing my relationship with Instagram, the success I had on there. And it was simply me playing into my strengths. And it's not that anyone else is doing it wrong. There's not this perfect black and white answer, but it's that who are you what are you good at in are you leaning into that full power?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Because that's going to make the difference.

Candice Coppola (Host)

This is such a good answer and I'm sure people listening are having some aha moments where they can just recall something even recently that they were trying to do, they heard they're supposed to be doing something a specific way or adopting a certain strategy or doing it this way. And they've been trying to jam this, you know, round peg in a square hole, trying to make it work for themselves.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And feeling really bad that it's not working for them.

It's working for everybody else. And they're thinking, what's wrong with me? We can all identify with that so much. And so the Enneagram helps us to identify who we really are, what our gifts are, what we're good at, what we're not good at, so that we can lean into the things, into our genius zone right and then let go or delegate the things that are outside of it.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Absolutely.

Candice Coppola (Host)

That's so valuable. It really is.

Candice Coppola (Host)

When you really get to know yourself what you're good at, what you suck at, where you can reach out and ask for some help. Things start to change in your business. And I think that analogy you use between you and your husband being two very different types, both entrepreneurs running a business, doing it very differently, but also being very successful is really perfect. An eye opening. Right.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

It's so helpful and it's just so freeing because I used to look at my husband at first and be like, you're doing it wrong. Like you, you need me. You need to be on Instagram like all these hours of the day. Like, I would tell him what was working for me. And he's just like, that's going to drain me, like, that's going to kill me. And it's been so cool for me to recognize his different gifts and to encourage him in the way that's best for him and to quit trying to control the way he runs his business in him.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And him same with me. And I mean, that's where it plays into your personal life, too. It's helped our marriage even grow because we start to understand each other on such a deeper level and why we're doing what we're doing.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah, that's the interesting thing about beliefs, because we as we walk around with these beliefs that we hold, we assume that everybody else has the same worldview. We do the same approach and the same beliefs. So the Enneagram can also show you that people approach things much differently than you do and they have different beliefs than you do. And not everybody is going to approach it in the same way.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right.

And it's not wrong, but it's humbling when you realize that it's like actually how can you love that person and support them and help them just excel in their strengths

Candice Coppola (Host)

And it's not wrong. I think that's the kicker. That's yeah.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right.

Candice Coppola (Host)

That's all we need to highlight and underscore and astrick. Just because they do things differently doesn't make it wrong. And just because you listening do something different than the way Kelly and I do, we're Enneagram three. So we're probably going to do things. Similarly, just because you do do it differently doesn't mean you're doing it wrong.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Exactly. Candice, I don't know if you've ever had anyone tell you this but growing up. I always heard, like, Callie, you're too much or you need to slow down or when is it enough? Like, you're just always achieving for more. And it's like I used to believe, like, oh, my gosh, something's wrong with me. Like, why am I always pushing for more? But it was just that truth about the Enneagram that it's like, oh, what type three was made that way? And I'm supposed to use my ambitious energy to help other people win.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And that has been the most freeing thing of recognizing like nothing's wrong with me. It's OK that I'm this way.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah. Growing up, I was not an overachiever, OK? No, I was like stoned all throughout high school. I was the opposite of an overachiever. I was just like smoking weed all the time and doing absolutely nothing. So I was I was living in the in the bad parts of being a three, being lazy. Right.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And not doing anything. It was only until I hit my 20s that I started to change. And I think that's because I was able to find something that I truly enjoyed. I started setting goals and my life completely changed. But growing up, people would not tell me I was too much. My mom like, could you get off the couch?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Could you do with your life? That's so funny.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah. So, I mean, you know, that's interesting too is how we can be the same type but have had very different experiences.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Right.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah. Oh totally. Yeah.

Candice Coppola (Host)

So this brings me to my next question. We've been talking about mindset and beliefs a little bit. So what type of mindset and work ethic must someone have in order to make a business happen?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, I think back to when I was at Starbucks, you know, like I would go to work at three thirty in the morning, which is incredibly early. And it was it was rough. Some days.

It was not always fun having to mop floors or take care of an employee that needed to be fired or something like there were not pretty parts about the job. But I think what shifted and this can be true in whatever season we're in is starting to see every little moment, like getting up at three thirty as an opportunity to build your character and build the person you're becoming rather than I have to get up again or I have to go to work.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Or do I really have to deal with this employee and you start flipping the script, and when you can do that in any aspect of your life, that ultimately is what prepares you for running a business or it doesn't even have to be a business, just anything you're wanting to achieve in your life. If you've trained yourself how to see things as an opportunity to build you rather than harm you, you're going to be able to handle so many more things coming your way.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And I've noticed that a lot of individuals and myself, I was in this place where I almost saw my jobs in the beginning as a waste. Like I just have to do this job until I get to my ultimate job. But those jobs were still valuable because they were training me. They were teaching me who to become, and I was still getting to make an impact on people. And so I think the mindset we have to have is understanding that every single moment in our life is shaping the person we're becoming tomorrow.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

How you handle right now is truly building you for tomorrow. And so whether you're putting the dishes away or maybe you're at home with a bunch of kids and you're taking care of them, how you handle that is truly shaping you.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And how can we not be so hard on ourselves for the way that we might be handling something?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Like you're saying, if we're like maybe feeling negative or struggling with it, like how do we give ourself grace?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

I think the first thing, Candice is like when you even notice, like, oh, man, maybe I've been a little bit negative with that mindset. Give yourself grace in the sense of, wow, I just recognize that my mindset was negative. Like, that's a win right there. Even though that you were negative, maybe you haven't changed it yet. The fact that you were self-aware to even notice it is the win because so many of us can sleepwalk through life and not even notice our maybe toxic thoughts that are hindering us more than helping us.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And so that's the first step, is giving yourself grace with that and celebrating the small things. And then it's not a failure that, you know, maybe I lashed out on my husband or I for I took an extra nap or something and I didn't get as much work done. That part's not the failure. It's how you handle the matter after. So if I let that start cycling into a negative pattern, like, oh, I suck, I slept too much, I shouldn't have done that.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

I know I'm terrible. I'm not a good business owner. That's when I'm starting to hinder myself more than help myself. But if I can interrupt that pattern and stop it and recognize, OK, why was I why did I need extra sleep? OK, that was a good thing. My body needed rest. I was listening to myself. Now how can I how can I prepare tomorrow to maybe not be in the same situation? And that may not be the best example, but there's a difference of learning how to talk yourself through it and figure out why.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

So why did you make the best decision? That's not a failure, but identifying the why behind it and then rewriting the script in your mind. So what can I do differently next time? And what could this look like? Yeah, and then next time you'll correct it.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I love that. Rewriting the script. So before we jumped on our call, I said, I have a story to tell when I get to one of our second questions.

Candice Coppola (Host)

You're like literally batting it up for me. So perfect. Right before our interview, I had about an hour and I said, you know, I just want to go lay down for a little bit and just go on my phone and read Twitter and, you know, read some jokes and just kind of disconnect from work. I have a busy day today. And I was laying down and I was feeling so guilty. And I'm like, you should be working.

Candice Coppola (Host)

You should be working. You need to be working. It's eleven o'clock. What are you doing? And this whole script plays over in my head. Right. I'm in Enneagram three for me to take a break and not be hustling, hustling, hustling, achieving, achieving, achieving is completely opposite of my personality. And I was like, you know what, Candice, you're allowed to take a break. Just like lay down, relax, clear your mind.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Bbreathe a little bit, do nothing on a Tuesday. It's why you opened your business. So if that's what you want to do, just do it. It's not like you're going to fail at life after this. Right. To be fine. And so this whole rewriting the script and sort of digging into your mindset, digging into your beliefs, challenging them and recognizing them, I totally get because I do it every day and I just did it an hour ago.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah. And it's a process, I think, like talking back to looking at, oh, you're successful, you have a business or now you're coaching people. I haven't arrived either, Candice. It's like I'm doing the same mindset work every day and it's and it's rewriting it of like it's not a failure that you took a break. And I think for us as threes, that's also where the self awareness piece comes in, is defining success versus defining failure.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And I love how you just shared you went back to the why of why you opened your business. It was so that you could have flexibility and coming back to that, because we really can get trapped in those lies of what we quote unquote think success is. But it's like, who defined that? Did I make that up? Or is that just some made up belief that I'm putting on myself?

Candice Coppola (Host)

Hmm. That right there is a golden nugget and it's true. So if you're listening to this, you can ask yourself what success really looks like for you and make sure that you're working and living on purpose with that in mind and not someone else's version of success for you. And if you ever find yourself in one of those situations that Callie or I described, go back to your why of why you opened up your business. It's probably so you could have freedom in your life, freedom to do things on your own terms.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And so when you make a decision to do something on your own terms, it goes against what you expect of yourself. Lean into it.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

So good

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yes, completely. So my final question for you is, how do we actually create a product or build an audience where people keep coming back for more, leveraging our Enneagram type? So how do we build this business or this audience that keeps people coming back over and over again?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, I think the first thing kind of building off of my other point about learning your strengths is a huge thing.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Like really what are your expertise or you mentioned like your genius zone. And I think it's, again, easy to look at other people and see, like, products they make or maybe something they do. And it's like, oh, cool, the enneagram successful soldiers whip together, something with the Enneagram. But if you're not passionate about that, if you don't have a big why behind our purpose, it's not really going to come through and serve that person.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Like people can feel that and actually have an example. I had created this whole like podcasting course because I had started a podcast on my own, taught myself. And it's been an amazing process. But I'm not really passionate about podcasting like the technology aspect of it. I love sharing my story. I love speaking, but actually educating people. And so I had created this whole course. Candice like trying to help people start their podcast. And it was a thousand percent of failure because I was just trying to make quick money.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

I was trying to find a way to get this out in the world. But it wasn't something I was ultimately passionate about in my audience, wasn't asking for it. And so I think when you are in alignment with, OK, what gifts do I have? What can I offer people? And am I passionate about this? Like the Enneagram? I was passionate about it for myself way before I ever even thought about trying to help other people with it.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And so that comes through in the way that I teach and educate and coach people. So I think that's the first thing. And then the second thing is truly solve a problem. And I would hear people say this and I'm like, what does that really mean? So to take this a step further, think about what people are walking through. So I had an entire content plan for this past spring, but when covid-19 hit, I completely scratched it and I was like, what do people need right now?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Like, what are they starving for? And I think people are starving to know what to do. They feel confused. They don't know how to feel. They don't know how to have compassion for people and they need something. And so I started creating content that was telling them based on the Enneagram, here's what you can do when you're feeling really anxious, when you're feeling extremely emotional, when you feel like shutting down and giving up, when you're tired of being persistent and that content did incredible, because I was solving a current problem that people were emotionally facing.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And so that can be a physical product, a digital product, anything. But I think really trying to get in your customers head and think about like, what are they walking through? And if they had this information or this thing, I know it would change their life. That's the thing you need to make for them.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I have a question that we're talking about customers and knowing your customers really, really, really well. Yeah. Knowing your customers problems is like your number one priority, right. You're a business to solve problems. So you need to know your customers problems. And just like you said, Callie, you have to be late on your feet because your customers problems can change at the drop of a hat.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

So true.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And especially during a worldwide pandemic. Right.

Candice Coppola (Host)

So kudos to you for seeing exactly what your customers were experiencing, not pivoting because you're still doing Enneagram. Why are you changing what you're sharing, how you're teaching, what you're teaching them about as it's affecting your life right now? Would you say that the Enneagram understanding, the nine types of the Enneagram is also really helpful in understanding your customers?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

One hundred percent. I'm so glad you asked this, Candice. It's it is amazing to use this tool and it truly has transform my business in the sense of if I'm coaching you as a type three versus a type nine, I know that I can push you more, I can give you more direct feedback, I can give you very specific things where you're just going to take it and run with it and thrive. If I did that to an Enneagram Type nine, I would shut them down.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

They would hate me. They would actually not achieve their goals and they would struggle. And so by learning that Enneagram and being able to speak to my clients or creating online content or even podcast episodes about imposter syndrome, well, each Enneagram type is going to handle it differently. And now it gives me a language in a way to speak to people. Even if they haven't identified their type. They're going to resonate with something I say, by the way, I say it.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

So, Candice, when you were reflecting on what I said about defining success and you told the listeners right now, like define success for you, I guarantee you any type three, seven or eight listening to this really resonated and wanted to go grab a pen and paper like in that moment and write it down where other types are like. And that's a good idea. But maybe they wouldn't do it. That's that in action. Is the Enneagram playing a role of like how we all think and act differently?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

It's so fascinating.

Candice Coppola (Host)

It is fascinating. So this is an opportunity for our listeners who are interested in understanding their customers even more to dig into the Enneagram, would you say? And maybe you. Don't have an answer for this, just curious of your opinion, but would you say that certain Enneagram types attract obviously maybe the same or like Enneagram types? So basically our listeners may be attracting type ones, twos and threes and not so many of type, seven eighths and nines as customers in their business?

Candice Coppola (Host)

Or am I just making that up?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

No, I think that's a really good question. I think it can be true and very specific depending on the business. So maybe if you have a coaching business where you're talking to people, I don't know if you listen to Jasmine Starr at all, but she's a type three on the Enneagram and she's very blunt, very direct or Rachel Hollis. She's a type three. There are some people that love that and there's some people that absolutely hate that. And so I wouldn't say it's like one specific Enneagram type, but I guarantee it's the more aggressive ones that want direct feedback that are drawn to her, which would be ones three, six, seven and eight.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And the other ones may not prefer that as much. And so clearly there's going to be exceptions, but I do think that's true. And that's the way yeah, the way you show up is going to attract people in your business in the way that they feel safe with your potentially unsafe just because of maybe your personality or the way you come across, which isn't always a bad thing, but you need to attract the right people.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Exactly.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And it's OK to repel the wrong people. In fact, you want to repel the wrong people. I was just curious because I was thinking if certain Enneagram types attract similar Enneagram types or Enneagram types with the same values or belief structures or mindsets, that means that maybe our customer bases are largely majority wise made up of specific types of people.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Which helps to cut down a little bit of the Enneagram research and like knowing all the nine times.

Candice Coppola (Host)

So I was thinking maybe you only have to research like three or four to really understand your customers. I imagine we probably like attracts like usually. So I imagine that we must be attracting customers who have if we're really showing up with our personality and people are really seeing that, then we're likely attracting people with similar Enneagram types.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

True. I think that can be true. And I think a lot of my clients are actually type nines right now. Currently, the majority is.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And I think that's because that's opposite of me. But I think that's because they desire so much discipline and structure in their life and they struggle with that, but they see that in me and that's something I can provide to them. So, you know, it's like I think it really depends on the business each listener has and what they're providing people, because they might see something in you that's like, oh, I want that so bad.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah. So would you say that people should ask their customers, like, hey, what's your Enneagram type? Do you know? And if you'd like to take the test and tell me, I'd love to know just for a little data research to see if they can start understanding more about their customers based on their Enneagram type.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, you know, I think some people can get offended or shut off by it quickly. And so an approach I like to take is first starting to talk about just the Enneagram with myself, like maybe a comment and just how it's impacted me.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And then based on their response to that, I absolutely will carry on that conversation or ask. And I do that more so in my personal life, because business world people know that that's what my business is. But I do think it's a conversation to pursue, if you can, and especially if someone's hungry to grow and learn. Absolutely. Like what a cool way for you to get to know your client and to lead them on that journey and even a deeper way.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah, for sure. And even if you're in a creative business or if you're not a business coach or you're not serving people in that kind of format, even if you're in a creative industry, but you still have that connection with your customers, it can tell you so much about their decision making, how they approach certain things. I mean, there's just so much you can learn. So if you can find a way to work it into a conversation and see if there's any sort of feedback, if they are interested in telling you you and Enneagram three will be like, well, I'm an Enneagram three

Callie Ammons (Guest)

With confidence.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yes, with confidence. You'll never not know that. But I think it could just be interesting to do a little data mining there and it can reveal a lot about your customers, especially the parts about your customers that are not perfect. All of our customers are flawed. We're flawed. We're human. So naturally we have imperfections. And it's when you can understand those flaws and those imperfections that you can really show up and serve people. You can create an incredible dynamic client experience that helps to nurture them in those hard parts.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And, of course, obviously understanding the parts where they really thrive, where their genius is, where they really excel, you can make sure that those parts are nurtured and uplifted in whatever process you have in working with people.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Right. So true.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah, so interesting. I mean, it's something to look into, right? Just knowing your customers better than anybody else in business, that's really important. But like you said, I guess people can get offended.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And when I was reading The Road Back to you, he said, do not diagnose people's Enneagrams.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah. Yes, dont do that, yeah, and it's so true, like I just finished working with a client and we had thought she was an Enneagram three, almost the it was like for three months total. And then at the end we actually discovered she was a seven. And it's because, like, she started revealing things to me that she hadn't told me, but she didn't even know it herself, like she was going on this journey of learning about herself and didn't realize her actual motivation was truly having fun and seeking adventure in life.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And so I think that's why it's so hard. Like, it's easy to want to type people because you might see someone who's ambitious, but the more you get to hear their thoughts or why they're motivated by that ambition, it just like is mind blowing, how different it is. And no one knows what's inside of you. So that's why I can be so dangerous to type people, because even experts mess up all the time with it.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And, you know, people will reveal what they feel comfortable revealing or what they want to reveal or what they even know. So you're your customer. There were parts of herself that she was unaware of. So it was it was unconscious to her. So, you know, you definitely don't want to start being like, well, you're four and you're right. Right. You know, people. Yeah, but it doesn't hurt to ask to see if they know their type.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And if they do, it can reveal so much about who they are. Well, Callie, we're going to share some resources for our listeners who are thinking, I want to know more about my customers. I want to know for myself. I want to know more about my partner. I want to know more about people in my life. I want to hear all about this. So we're going to share some resources in a couple of seconds. But I want to ask you two questions that we ask of every guest that comes on the show.

Candice Coppola (Host)

The first is who inspires you with their purpose? So who is out there live in their life working, living on purpose?

I was trying to think of, like, all the amazing people because I'm like I feel like I have so many great mentors that still don't know I exist yet. But the top one is Brian Buffini who lives in California, runs a very successful company, but he is so rich in his soul. Candice like his purpose shines through in the way that he parents, coaches, teachers, everything, and it just fires me up. I could listen to his podcast all day long.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Oh that's awesome. I don't have to look this up. I love people who lead like that and inspire others. I feel you on that. I have people like that in my life and it's just so nice when you can connect with a mentor like that and have that sort of mentor right in your back pocket.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Absolutely.

Yeah, for sure. My second question, how has purpose changed your life in your business? So let's go back in time to working two full time jobs in a leadership role at Starbucks.

Candice Coppola (Host)

You just discover the Enneagram. How has life changed from that moment until today with your podcast, your coaching business, you're getting ready to move on sunday. So all these wonderful things are happening and have have happened since then. What has really changed?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

First thing is I don't get up at three thirty anymore, but what.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, so much has changed. And I think the biggest thing is I just feel so fulfilled every single day. Getting to help people reach for more freedom and confidence in their own life is literally what I feel like I was made to do. And each day I just feel exhausted but so fulfilled in that getting to help people and have so many conversations. But even like getting to work beside my husband, we both work from home. I love how much time I get to spend with him, like I thrive with that.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

And just the freedom like how you were talking about in your business. Candice Like the freedom to take a nap if you want to relax, I, I truly wanted to create that for my life and I'm living it now. I have that freedom in my schedule. But it's just so fulfilling getting to help people when in their life and using my gifts to do that.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yeah, the purpose is twofold. It's not just about you, it's also about your customer.

Candice Coppola (Host)

But when you find something that fills up both cups, it's like really it's like a house on fire. It's really like dynamite. I mean, it really does change everything about your life and you get to impact the lives of other people. That's really the power behind it.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Yes. So we need all the resources. Well, first of all, we want to connect with you outside the podcast. So how can our listeners do that?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, so the best way is I hang out on Instagram pretty much every day so you can find me there @callieammons. And then I have my own podcast called Living Enneagram. And so if you want to just start this journey and learning about it, that is a great place to go because there's new episodes every single week and you can search that on any podcasting platform.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I love that. So podcasting your podcast listener. So if you want to start on this journey of Enneagram and you want to start it with Callie, go and subscribe to her show.

Candice Coppola (Host)

It's full of so much information and resources that will help to reveal more about. You more about the people you love in your life, if you know their type and you're not typing them and of course your customers do, if you want to dig into that journey and if somebody wants to hire you as their Enneagram coach, how can they do that?

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Yeah, the best place to do that is just to go to CallieAmmons.com And you'll see it right there on my home page. And if you're also looking to discover your Enneagram type, you can go to CalileAmmons.com/Mytype. And those are the best ways to get started with me.

Callie Ammons (Guest)

Amazin I'm going to link all of that in the show notes so that you can easily pop over and do all the things. Callie, I want to thank you so much for coming on today's episode of the show. You're our first Enneagram expert and I loved our conversation so much.

Candice Coppola (Host)

I loved it, too. Candice, thank you so much for having me on.

Candice Coppola (Host)

And just for all the great work you're doing, I want to thank Callie for being such a great guest on today's episode of the podcast for bringing the Enneagram to the power in purpose in teaching us all more about how the Enneagram can help us to live our very best lives to find that freedom that we've been searching for. If you don't know your Enneagram type and you're curious, I've linked to Callie in the show notes, so please go and follow her.

Candice Coppola (Host)

Go take the Enneagram test, discover what your Enneagram type is. Be sure to listen to her podcast. Lots of nuggets in there, especially if you're going to go on the journey of not just self discovery, but discovering what the nine types look like and how you can leverage that information to know your customers better and to serve them well. So I've linked all of that in the show notes. I want to thank Callie again for being such a great guest on today's episode of the show.

Candice Coppola (Host)

If you loved this episode, do me a huge favor. Go and leave a review reviews. Help us to get seen on that crazy podcast algorithm and Apple podcasts, which means more people get to discover Callie, get to discover purpose and can start living and working on purpose every single day. Thanks so much for listening. I would love to hear what your big takeaway was from this episode of Pop over to my Instagram. Let me and Callie know.

And until next time, I'm here to remind you that there is so much power in your purpose.